On the occasion of Peter Hook and the Light’s concert in Lausanne on November 22, here is the transcript of Peter Hook’s audio interview, to be read below.

DAVID GLASER: Hello, is this Hooky?
PETER HOOK: Yes, it’s me.

Hi, it’s David, I’ve been waiting 47 years for this moment, and I’m very happy to talk to you.
I know, it’s a scary thought, isn’t it?

On this tour, which you’ve been doing continuously for several years now, do reactions vary from place to place? Are you within the band more sensitive to certain reactions, in Switzerland for example?
In Switzerland, we had a really bad reaction from the crowd, because our equipment broke down. It was a very old tour with New Order when we had that problem, so it’s a bad memory. The thing about New Order is that with all the songs we had, we ended up playing just a little bit of the New Order repertoire. I think it was crazy not to play more of the repertoire. Now that I’ve found the freedom to do it, I think I’ve found a niche to please New Order fans. Every time we’ve rehearsed, it’s 15 songs that we’ve changed for each set, with songs from « Substance » whether it’s Joy Division’s « Substance » or New Order’s « Substance », so it allows us to do something very fresh for us, the way we like to make the music we like best. We’ve got into the habit of working on a lot of songs, so we’re delighted with that, and it’s allowing me to put my dementia at bay.

Your voice has improved over the years, don’t you think?
What’s interesting is that when we started with The Light to cover Joy Division, because of the negative reaction coming from the internet, the three singers I had identified dropped out of the deal. It was my dear friend Rosetta Satchell of the Happy Mondays who said, « Hooky, if you’re going to do it, you’re going to have to do it on your own! »

At the time I was terrified, even though I’d had the opportunity to sing Joy Division songs that Ian Curtis let me sing like « Interzone ». He was encouraging and happy to let me sing any song. I have a little confidence. Also I had the vocal range for Joy Division songs, shall we say. But following in his footsteps was terrifying at first. When I listen to the recordings from the early 2010s, I can say I’m scared to death. The fact is, after all these years – 13 years, to be precise – I’ve become more and more self-confident. The only thing I wanted was to make this music and share it with people who love it.

Over time, I realized that Barney and Stephen didn’t like our music. Most of the time, they refused to play it in its diversity. We had to play the same 17 songs over and over again. To be honest, that made me sad for the audience. Now I have this audience who love this music as much as I do. I’m very proud to be working in this direction, and to be playing every song Joy Division ever wrote. Proud, too, that the next step will be to play all the songs New Order played too. I’m well on the way to being able to play « Get Ready » on tour next year.

How do the New Order songs compare with those of Joy Division?
The vocal parts for New Order were a bit different, but I gained confidence and that made me very happy and relaxed. And I’d agree with you that I’m a much better singer today than I was 13 years ago. But when Ian and the whole band started out, we were scared. You can hear that on the recordings from that period. It’s a learning process. It’s been fantastic to learn the songs, all the songs since New Order’s « Movement », since Joy Division’s « Still », « Unknown Pleasure » or « Closer », it’s a source of happiness.

You seem to be the only person on this earth who’s connected in some way. For me, you’ve got the guts and soul to do this kind of reinterpretation work, more than you used to, when you were lost in all this technology, maybe I’m rambling but I feel you’ve detached yourself from the person you used to be… what do you think?
The saddest thing is that we’ve lost our love for New Order, all that love I tried to nurture for Joy Division. Now that I look at New Order, I don’t see any soul in what they’re doing. They look like strangers. You know, like when you get divorced and bump into your ex a few years later. You recognize bits and pieces of the person, but you don’t recognize the totality of the person’s traits, and you can’t imagine being with the person at all. The way they behaved with me is absolutely disgusting. And the relationship is beyond repair. To get the New Order name, they manipulated and it was horrible, it was horrible, there was absolutely no need to go that far. It was cowardly.

Do you think they’re still trying to discredit you?
I’m not interested in what they say, the most interesting people are in front of me.

It seems that you and David « Pottsy » Potts are a good unit?
Yes, of course. The only wish I’d had would have been to have done all those songs together. The passion and hard work that drive us is wonderful. I’ve played with Pottsy longer than I’ve played with Barney, which is incredible when you think about it. I met David when he was 16, when he came to my studio. I think it’s kind of corny, being with the people who wrote the music was an unhappy experience when we were together. My wife tells me « you come home with a big smile on your face… you never get that reaction when you come back from a New Order concert… ». Playing with people who give you that feeling, it makes me happy and I’m able to go on stage and play those songs I love. I’d die for those songs. It reminds me of the early years of New Order, when we were focused and had a purpose and a moral. For me, New Order died when Rob Gretton, our manager, died. That’s the conclusion I’ve come to. Then not only our ideals, our ethical considerations died too. But also our music. That aspect tended to change as long as there was no common ground between us. As my wife says, stop talking about it.

You should keep going, people want to hear these stories… You know I started actively listening to New Order with « Technique », a present my grandmother bought me along with albums by A-ha and Wham!
Oh, wow. There’s nothing wrong with that, I knew George Michael.

Oh, you knew him?

Yes, he was a great talent. Every time I saw him, he’d say, « Hooky, every time I see you, you’re out of your head ».

Is that so? That’s funny…
Is it? Crap. Of the two, I’m probably the luckiest. I was always happy to see him. We shared a lot in common from that period in the ’80s and ’90s. He was adorable, a true gentleman, generous…

And true to himself…
Rock’n’roll is full of people who have had existences like that.

Getting back to « Technique », I’m so happy to see you play « Vanishing Point », but what about the rest of the album?

Because I’ve been working on the catalog, including « Republic », I did a tour in England to play « Technique » and « Republic ». I did the same thing in the States to play those same two albums in their entirety. Each time I did it, considering that I hated « Republic » before I started playing its songs live, it was absolutely wonderful to finish the work on these songs. You see, most of the songs on « Technique » we never played live. All the songs from « Republic », we didn’t play live, so to have them back in the setlist was absolutely great. « Technique » in its entirety is a complicated album to play. But when you get the approach right, it was absolutely brilliant. « Republic » then went from being my most hated LP to my most loved. I didn’t think I’d like it any more than « Technique », because « Technique » has always represented New Order at the top for me. And it’s always been this fabulous record. Talking of « Substance », it came out before « Regret », « Run » or « What’s the Price of Love », the other singles from « Republic ». I’ll be playing all the iconic tracks from « Substance » probably on my next tour, and from « Dreams Never End » to the singles « Waiting for the Siren’s call » and « Age of Consent », all the songs that should be on « Substance ». I’m spoilt for choice. I’m going to play « Get Ready » in its entirety next year. There’s always a challenge, and I got out of that situation where we had to play the same songs over and over again every time with a bunch of miserable bastards. It’s like being born again in a way.

You see, here comes the Christian reference… You’ve tried on many occasions with Monaco, Revenge and Freebass to express yourself differently. By the way, I have to ask you this question. The death of Andy Rourke of the Smiths, with whom you played in Freebass, must have had a terrible impact on you…
Yes, of course I knew about Andy. It’s one of those very slow declines, and it’s still very shocking. I was able to talk to him and give him a message before he passed away. I was very happy to have done so.

That’s lovely indeed.
Coming back to the fact that you were always ready to jump on the bandwagon of other people’s musical projects, Gorillaz for example, that makes you a man with a very rich background and always ready to help others. But now, with all the work you’ve done, covering all the songs in your repertoire, it seems you’ve found your own path as a solo artist.
Yes. I’m currently working on a song with Rusty Egan, who has played with the Rich Kids and Ultravox. And it sounds great. But you know, I actually miss being in a band because I miss being able to be in a band to write music. I have to do it in a different way. I’m very happy to keep The Light as a « vehicle », I’m now used to celebrating the music from before. I’m also busy with my friend Phil Murphy in the band Man Ray, with whom we’ve written a lot of songs. It’s also relaxing. The fact that you’re not making money from your music makes it easier, and you can be more experimental. You don’t have to make songs that are going to be hit singles. Now, the way people use music is really very different. There’s no longer this weight on you, of having to make money from the sale of your singles to keep you going.

What would Tony Wilson or Rob Gretton have thought, seeing what you do for a living?
I think Rob Gretton would have been devastated, to be honest, to see what happened to New Order. So would Tony. It’s funny but I was invited to a discussion today because we’re trying to erect a statue of Tony Wilson in Manchester… I miss Tony, Rob and New Order in a way. Time waits for no one.

The situation in the world today must affect you too, Gaza, Israel and Ukraine, you must know all these places?

I’m going through the same thing as you. I can’t understand the level of inhumanity shown in these conflicts, I’m not religious… it’s about human beings. We all want to spend our lives having fun. And to see these events, from the Ukraine to the Middle East, is absolutely terrifying. And we’re obliged to sit back and be grateful for living where you live, where I live, because at least we can enjoy a civilized life, the way we should always live it. I can’t accept the idea that people can come to this. And I have a « get out of jail free » card, because I’m a musician, I’m a troubadour… I’m here to tell stories. To entertain them from their daily lives, to give them an hour and a half, two and a half hours to forget all the horrors of the world, while we share moments from what used to be a happier time.

When you play certain Joy Division songs, this representation of chaos was very much present, and it’s even more deeply rooted in reality perhaps today with Ian’s lyrics…
Joy Division’s music in many places is wonderful. I was watching the « Invasion » series, which is new. In the first episode, Joy Division’s « 24 Hours » is used in the best possible way. I was stunned because I didn’t know the music had been used there. It’s the story of an alien invasion, but it’s done really well. To see Joy Division’s music used again for a second series to great effect is an honor, and to hear Ian’s voice in this context of a brand new series about a new world. To hear our music is incredible. Ian had a gift with his words, he could speak to people directly with his words. He got his stories across. People identify with his songs even now. When I started playing, I thought I’d be with a bunch of guys like me, who play with their guts. But when you think about it, there were young people whose music was given to them by their parents, or by their grandparents like you, and that’s passed on. And it’s really great to see the concerts with the parents and grandparents, all New Order fans who come with their kids. Thanks for that.

Public Image Limited came to the Docks recently, it was excellent, it was the first time I saw John Lydon on stage and it made me think of the first time you saw Johnny « Rotten » Lydon on stage in Manchester in 1976, can you remind me of what you experienced that day?
You know, the weirdest thing about it was that we’d been to see Led Zeppelin or Deep Purple a week before. Led Zeppelin, when I saw them, didn’t give me the impression that I could do what they did. When I saw Johnny Rotten and the Sex Pistols, I thought I could do what they did. Besides, it was mainly John Lydon. I said to Barney after the show, we should form a band. And that’s how we started. Now, I know John and I know him pretty well, I’ve had several opportunities to meet him, I know him on stage and backstage, I knew his wife. And his death had a big impact on me. I think the song he wrote for her, which was in the running for the Eurovision Song Contest on behalf of Ireland, was a very good song. It probably couldn’t have gone very far because it was really out of context. As a man, he probably went very far for perfection. What was he like at the Docks, aggressive as he can sometimes be?

Oh no, I found him in very good spirits, proud to be provocative in order to better serve his songs…

I have to admit that « Flowers of Romance » and « Metal Box » particularly surpassed anything he’d ever done with the Sex Pistols. The Sex Pistols spoke to my adolescent anger. It gave me the expression and inspiration to think, I’d never played a note in my life. I bought a guitar after I saw you. When I think about it. I played with Glen Matlock three months ago, and when I see him I say, « It’s all your fault, Glen, » and he says, « Fuck off! Meeting him after 47 years of playing, he was the man behind the Sex Pistols, he wrote most of the songs. He’s a great guy. I was happy to see him with Blondie, I thought it was fantastic and he hasn’t changed. I saw him probably in 2000 for the first time, something like that. He’s the same, very kind, very humble.

I met Steve Jones in Los Angeles, Paul Cook when he played in a band that was playing a festival with us. Steve was on his radio show. And his book was great. I love Danny Boyle’s Sex Pistols series, I love them for what they’ve done for me. I know they went through hard times like we did. But to be on the same stage as Glen Matlock, playing, I was so proud.

You know I started in radio when BBC Radio 1 put Mark Radcliff and Marc « Lard » Riley on the morning show. They had opened their show one morning when I was there in England with « Love Will Tear Us Apart », and I thought to myself that day, if these guys can do this on the radio, then I want to do radio…
They were great, their breakup was hard. I know both of them very well and see them often. Mark lives right next door to me, he drives past every day to drop his daughter off at school and every time he does, he yells at me from the car « hey Hooky, you dick », something like that. It’s funny. I live just outside Manchester, less than half an hour from the center…

I always thought Mancunians were funny and clever…
You must be like this because of the bad weather. It rains all the time and it’s always gray.

I have the same feeling with my Irish friends here.
We’ve got that in common, it’s true.

Thanks Hooky and see you next Wednesday.
If you want to say hello after the show, you’re welcome.

Interview by David Glaser, thanks to Alexandra Duvanel of Les Docks

To listen to the audio interview, click on this link.